Thank you b. for your comment on the post entitled Counter to Atheist Objection. You have showed tolerance in your response in that it was thoughtful and controlled. I have a question for you to think about, Should one be tolerant of intolerance? That is if we say that tolerance is a quality to encourage in others then when we see intolerance in another are we to correct that intolerance? Would that not be intolerance of intolerance?
I raise this point not to say that it is wrong to tell a racist that he is wrong. I raise it to point out there are two types of intolerance. One based on truth and one based on falsehood. There were people in Germany that would not tolerate Hitler's intolerance. They stood up for the Jews and others being murdered and paid with their own lives. Hitler's intolerance of Jews was based on hatred and lies but, the intolerance of Hitler's intolerance was based on a standard of right and wrong.
How was this standard established originally? There can be no intrinsic standard of right and wrong. A standard by definition must be established by something outside- be it authority, custom, or general consent. Can we say that the general consent is that it is wrong to kill someone solely based on a lie that they are an inferior race? It wasn't the general consent in Germany at that time but it was still wrong. What about a standard based on custom? Antisemitism is a custom you will find in every age and every where. Even in places where there is no one to blame woes on. For example here in Peru, where the Jewish population is less than .0001%, several times I have heard people express the same stereotypes about Jews that Hitler took advantage of in his propaganda. So this standard is not set by custom because the custom is contrary to the standard of right and wrong as we saw in Nazi Germany.
It is true that the standard of right and wrong is within us, but how did it get there? If it evolved it is caused biologically, environmentally, socially or some mixture of these. Imagine that Hitler murdered everyone that thought that Hitler or his successors murdering whoever they wanted was wrong. According to my assumption about evolution eventually after generations of this no one would believe that Hitler or his successor murdering who they wanted was wrong. Does the holocaust become not wrong in this scenario? No, because the standard of right and wrong is in us as you rightfully pointed out but it was put there and exists outside of us.
b. You said, "i believe in being as good to other people as possible, but this doesn't mean i do it because some higher power wants or encourages me to." I believe that you believe in being as good to others as possible but I don't believe you are. If you have been as good to others as possible does my not believing change the fact that you have been as good to others as possible. Similarly you not being as good to others as possible because a higher power wants or encourages you to is not evidence that there is no higher power that wants or encourages you to. Maybe one is nice to a neighbor because she likes him but that doesn't mean the government doesn't prohibit murder her murdering him.
I raise this point not to say that it is wrong to tell a racist that he is wrong. I raise it to point out there are two types of intolerance. One based on truth and one based on falsehood. There were people in Germany that would not tolerate Hitler's intolerance. They stood up for the Jews and others being murdered and paid with their own lives. Hitler's intolerance of Jews was based on hatred and lies but, the intolerance of Hitler's intolerance was based on a standard of right and wrong.
How was this standard established originally? There can be no intrinsic standard of right and wrong. A standard by definition must be established by something outside- be it authority, custom, or general consent. Can we say that the general consent is that it is wrong to kill someone solely based on a lie that they are an inferior race? It wasn't the general consent in Germany at that time but it was still wrong. What about a standard based on custom? Antisemitism is a custom you will find in every age and every where. Even in places where there is no one to blame woes on. For example here in Peru, where the Jewish population is less than .0001%, several times I have heard people express the same stereotypes about Jews that Hitler took advantage of in his propaganda. So this standard is not set by custom because the custom is contrary to the standard of right and wrong as we saw in Nazi Germany.
It is true that the standard of right and wrong is within us, but how did it get there? If it evolved it is caused biologically, environmentally, socially or some mixture of these. Imagine that Hitler murdered everyone that thought that Hitler or his successors murdering whoever they wanted was wrong. According to my assumption about evolution eventually after generations of this no one would believe that Hitler or his successor murdering who they wanted was wrong. Does the holocaust become not wrong in this scenario? No, because the standard of right and wrong is in us as you rightfully pointed out but it was put there and exists outside of us.
b. You said, "i believe in being as good to other people as possible, but this doesn't mean i do it because some higher power wants or encourages me to." I believe that you believe in being as good to others as possible but I don't believe you are. If you have been as good to others as possible does my not believing change the fact that you have been as good to others as possible. Similarly you not being as good to others as possible because a higher power wants or encourages you to is not evidence that there is no higher power that wants or encourages you to. Maybe one is nice to a neighbor because she likes him but that doesn't mean the government doesn't prohibit murder her murdering him.
It is to easy to say that you have done your best to live as good to others as possible especially compared to the next guy, but if there is a standard of right and wrong is established then you have to compare yourself to that. Have you ever done anything that you would not like done to you? Have you ever lied, no matter how small the lie? Would you have wanted someone tell you that same lie? Have you ever stolen anything no matter how small? Would you have wanted someone to steal something like that from you? You are not as good as you possibly could be. But even if from now on you were you would still have already committed all these things that go against the standard of right and wrong.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is established by an authority. It is in Leviticus. According to Jesus it is a command. A command must come from a commander. What do you think about Jesus? Do you think he loved others? I think He practiced this command better then me or you. I think he practiced it perfectly. I think he loved even his enemies. But you know he said that this was the second most important command. He said that the first is we should love God. How you doing on that one? When I realized that I wasn't doing either of these nor could I ever do them and that that meant I had a big problem because all that stuff about judgement, heaven and hell is true, I only found the solution in one place. Jesus is the only one that paid that price. The price of something can be determined by how much someone paid for it. According to Jesus the cost of you and me breaking this standard of right and wrong is His death on a cross. Remember he was perfect. He did not deserve to be on that cross.
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